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  The Chatter Box : Blathering On
Messages 1 2 

America's Most Wanted? by finnguy on 29 April 2005 10:44am
This story had passed me by until I came across it in BBC News Online's weekly quiz. Talk about over-reacting...!


(The video footage is incredible and more than a little disturbing.)
Re: America's Most Wanted? by Katie J on 29 April 2005 10:56am
Er...someone's gonna get sued I think!
So bizarre...what an over reaction!The police handcuffing a 5 year old!!

Although I agree that out of control children in the classroom do have to be 'handled' as it were.

My mother has taught loads of kids with severe behaviour problems (usually in a class of 30+ who do not have these issues) and it seems a really fine line between restraining a child and commiting an offence! My mum has had chair throwers and punchers etc! It's usually the rest of the class that suffers.

I was talking to some of my friends who are training to be doctors and they seemed really concerned that teachers won't give medication (like insulin) to children at school for fear of reprisals! It's a sad fact today that no one really knows where the duty of care lies.

Personally I would have to jump in and hope that people understood that I used reasonable force or acted upon my duty of care in a medical situation - whatever the outcome.
Re: America's Most Wanted? by irishmanufan on 29 April 2005 11:08am
kids casn;t get insulin form teachers ? i have a dietbetic friend and if she does'nt get insulin she could fall into a coma . who;d be held responsible then . although if a kid is diabetic he or she should be able to carry his or her medication . i am epileptic and if i get injured during a seizure well it can happen . although epileptics should not be held down or have anything forced into thier mouths you have to let a siezure take it course you can't force me or anyone else out of one . thats the same for kids as it is for adults and anyone who has an epileptic child should understand that and not sue if a child gets hurt during a siezure .
i was watching an interesting film called supersize me on channell 4 last night and it seemed to suggest that a healthy diet in school dinners can actually calm kids down . they showed a normal school and what the kids ate in it . usually processed crap . the kids could'nt make a health chioces because there were no healthy choices available . however they then went to a school for violent and mibehaving kids . where all the food was really good quailty fresh foods . the headmaster of that school said that the diet the kids ate played a significant part in calming them down . from the outside looking in they just seemed to be normal kids at school .
Re: America's Most Wanted? by Wild in Africa on 29 April 2005 11:08am
Yes, total over-reaction for a 5 year old, but it does beg the question of how to deal with out of control kids in school. Nobody dare lay a finger on them now for fear of legal action and the kids know they have the teachers over a barrel on this. It makes life hell for the teachers and ruins the educational progress of other kids.

Although I understand the unacceptability of violence towards children, instilling discipline has until very recently been a totally acceptable behaviour in order that kids do grow up understanding right and wrong and what is for them acceptable and unacceptable behaviour and that there are uncomfortable outcomes for them for crossing that line.
As a new parent myself this is a dilemma still to be faced. While not wanting to condone violence how does one instill discipline in an entirely non-violent manner? Or as the four Yorkshiremen might have said "When I were a lad....Ay we 'adit tough....but if you tell that to the young folks today they just won't believe you"

I would welcome the opinions of those on this site who are still at school. How do you think discipline should be enforced to the benefit of all?

Oh and Irishmanufan I saw Supersizeme last night too and it has reinforced my conviction to avoid for ever junk food and never cross the Golden Arches again. I always knew their food was total crap and this has proved that point for me.
Re: America's Most Wanted? by finnguy on 29 April 2005 11:16am
I agree, it's a fine balance.

I think in this instance the main over-reaction lay with the police. It might seem a bit extreme for teachers to call the police about a tantrumy (?) five-year-old but I'm not sure they had a lot of options left. But for the police to march in and apply handcuffs without properly assessing the situation (i.e. by this stage the girl had appeared to calm down) is ridiculous.
Re: America's Most Wanted? by finnguy on 29 April 2005 11:16am
Re: America's Most Wanted? by Katie J on 29 April 2005 11:30am
Irishmanufan I think you misunderstand me. My point was that SOME teachers do give insulin (and other forms of medication) to the requisite children, however others will not as they are fearful of reprisals. The problem with the latter is that they have to wait for an ambulance to arrive, thus delaying help. (I think teachers have to sign consent forms...and maybe the parents too..in order to give certain types of emergency medication).

I have epilepsy too and am acutely aware that my friends should know not to put their hands in my mouth should I have a seizure (they are likely to get bitten as the jaw clamps shut!). I think that it is very important for teachers and children at school to understand what they should NOT be doing when someone has a seizure (like giving them CPR if the heart is beating!!)... and understanding what the recovery position is and when it is and is not relevant.

It's interesting to note however that you may be legally responsible (in terms of duty of care) if you do not help someone who is clearly in need of help. Bit of a legal minefield as far as I'm concerned!

The Supersize me thing was rather good last night...a bit disturbing though!
Re: America's Most Wanted? by harvey123 on 29 April 2005 11:48am
i saw this alittle while ago and i did fing it shocking..i dont feel there was a need to handcuff a five year old girl..but i totally agree with WIA in his first paragraph...

Supersize me-Jamies school Dinners~ fantastic documentary and when it 1st came out i watched it and was shocked how the diet wrecked his body. Since watching it , it made me make huge changes to my diet..on average i probably have mcdonalds once a month but it has made me step back and take alook at what i do eat..from now on i have only been buying food in there natural state i.e to make chicken nuggets etc i will use chicken breasts and make my own breadcrumbs..i even bought a breadmaker the plus side is also that you lose weight!

Having a background in childcare i have seen the devastating effects that sugar fueled food can do to a child...the amount of children with behaviour difficulties has gone sky high.

Katie J regarding medication..i was a managger at a nursery at we had to refuse children from our care until they were well again for a huge fear of something going wrong...the amount of policies and procedures we had to have in place were overwhelming. We were not allowed to give a child medical assistance unless the parents granted it..even if the child was dying. If the parents didnt grant it we would get sued to pieces! We couldn't even use plasters anymore because some child MAY have a reaction...for me personally working in childcare left me a nervous wreck wih all the policies and procedures its frightening..as a mangager i legally had to have these in place as to protect my staff, myself and children or the nursery would close but the requirements by OFSTED are now making it impossible to give children the care they need with such tight restrictions. I no longer work in childcare .. lady of leisure as you know but i hope to work with animals once ive got my d-licence.
Re: America's Most Wanted? by perfectbitch on 29 April 2005 12:52pm
Now employers want "managers" who have authority but who are not prepared to take responsibility. Focus groups and the like ensure that no-one should, God forbid, make a decision off their own bat. This US style management technique may well be profitable in commerce and industry but is useless in the public services where profit making is not in the nature of the proffession.
Re: America's Most Wanted? by irishmanufan on 29 April 2005 1:23pm
janey harvey i can see you are in a no win situation . if you don;t render aid you could get sued and if you do render aid you would get sued . catch 22 .
sorry katie i did'nt mean to take your point wrong . i was just using epilepsy as an example as it is something i know about as you do too . i agree with your second post in this topic 100%
i see your dilema too wild in africa . take an example . if your child has hit another child is the best way to teach him or her not to hit another child to punish them by hitting them . if what i have just said makes sense . i was never hit by my parents but then again when i was a kid if mom shouted at me i would be terrified .
i agree with you too perfectbitch. makes me glad i am in buissness with my Dad and no one else
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