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  The Chatter Box : Travel
Lizzie Borden by AGM on 7 June 2005 2:27pm
The Lizzie Borden home in Fall River, Massachusetts is a bed and breakfast. I'd like to take the tour of the house, but I wouldn't want to stay overnight. I'm not totally comfortable with the entertainment aspect of it. How do you feel about the Jack the Ripper tours and things like that?
Re: Lizzie Borden by Wild in Africa on 7 June 2005 3:19pm
Sorry but don't know Lizzie Borden (please tell us more) but in the UK we have the London Dungeon which is all about the evil types who have stalked London's streets through the ages.

Madam Tussauds used to have a Chamber of Horrors with waxen representations of murderers and others. Anyone been there recently to tell me if it still does?

I guess if they are recent history and are likely to upset still living people who were directly affected by the crimes then they are not a good idea, but if they are of a more historical nature, such as Jack the Ripper then it is less likely to offend (except the obsessively PCs) and can count as entertainment.
Re: Lizzie Borden by Spursfan on 7 June 2005 4:00pm
Wasn't it something like she killed her parents??

There was a kid's rhyme - something like

Lizzie Burden took an axe
Gave her parents 40 whacks
Something something something
Gave her parents 40 more.

Or something like that. I'm sure someone will give us the correct words!

Re: Lizzie Borden by kristinekm on 7 June 2005 6:47pm
Lizzie Borden took an axe
And gave her mother forty whacks.
And when she saw what she had done,
She gave her father forty-one.

found it here: http://www.crimelibrary.com/lizzie/lizziemain.htm
Re: Lizzie Borden by Spursfan on 7 June 2005 7:23pm
Oh yes, that was it !! I was close!

I remember there was a film about it.

Re: Lizzie Borden by Ahren on 7 June 2005 9:58pm
i didn't know anything about that until now, but i have been reading these:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/caseclosed/index.shtml "Infamous criminals" and "Infamous Crimes" are the best. Can be quite gory in places!
Re: Lizzie Borden by beccles on 8 June 2005 11:52am
On the subject of murderers and villains, this is a story that my dad tells and there is absolutely no evidence to back it up, but apparently one of my great great great grandparents claimed to have seen Jack the Ripper escaping over their garden fence in London. They used to own a Hackney carriage company on the Old Kent Road around the time of the Whitechapel murders. I expect its a load of rubbish, but its nice to have little stories like that to tell about your ancestors! I know absolutely nothing about mine!

Re: Lizzie Borden by canaveralgumby on 11 June 2005 7:20am
Here's a very comprehensive account:


The site is affiliated with CourtTV. You can get immersed and stay up til 4:00 am reading about serial killers and psychos. It's dreadful but it's just fascinating. Most people find it so. Consider the percentage of TV shows and movies which have to do with murder and debauchery and solving crime. If you read some of the real life accounts on this website, you will see that nothing fictional, not the most sadistic, perverse, disgusting fictional stories, are as bad as what people have really done. You can see the roots of every horror/slasher/Hitchcock movie in these stories.

Well, happy reading! Have fun at the B&B! - Cori
Re: Lizzie Borden by tucsonmike on 30 July 2005 6:26am
I am from New York, but married a Bostonian and have a friend from nearby New Bedford. The rhyme is something they both grew up with and would recite just to be wiseguys.
The retired FBI profiler John Douglas wrote a chapter in one of his books about the Borden case. His conclusion? No question she did it. Her father, Andrew Borden grew up poor but made good and saw being parsimonious as the ticket to wealth. Lizzie felt her chances for a proper husband were squelched because of the way they lived. Andrew Borden's second wife, Abby he married strictly for her money. Lizzie didn't like her stepmother and that is why she was killed as well as her father.
Having said that, why was she not convicted of this brutal murder?
No woman had been hung in Massachusetts for more than a century. Sort of like the O.J. Simpson case, the jury was all but ordered to acquit. Gentlemen of Fall River just couldn't believe a proper woman such as Lizzie could have committed such an act. (Though, Lizzie was shunned by proper society after the verdict and died in 1927 in New Hampshire). Some of Lizzies supporters were convinced a Portugese immigrant farm laborer committed the murder. (He was being sought for a similar murder on a nearby farm). The Portugese were popular targets for bigotry in Southeastern Massachusetts.

Or besides John Douglas, these are the stories my friend Donna tells. If she is lying she can be found in Chula Vista, CA and struck by lightning.
Re: Lizzie Borden by tucsonmike on 2 August 2005 4:08am
I found the John Douglas book in my bookcase. It is called the Cases That Haunt Us. Chapter Two, page 93-148 is about Lizzie Borden. (Chapter One is about Jack the Ripper).
I'd say enjoy the book, but even though well laid out and presented something tells me enjoy is not the appropriate word for this.

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