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  The Chatter Box : Blathering On
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The Passion of Brian by Martin99 on 26 March 2004 11:52am
Yeah so they are going to re-release LOB, on the back of the release of the movie 'The Passion of the Christ'. Fanastic idea, well done for brightning up the World..
Has anyone seen TPOTC ?
Any good?
Is it subtitled?
Is it gory?
Is it worth seeing?
Is there any comedy in it - intentially or unintentially?

- You have a nice day yawl...
Re: The Passion of Brian by tominator_49 on 26 March 2004 6:26pm
The pirates of the carribean?
Re: The Passion of Brian by sillyoldgem on 26 March 2004 9:34pm
Re: The Passion of Brian by irishmanufan on 27 March 2004 12:11am
i have'nt seen it , it has only opened in Dublin this evening , but according to an american msn frind of mine:
Any good?: very
Is it subtitled?: yes
Is it gory? yes but so was the punishment of crucifiction . my friend says it realisticlally shows whay the bible says jesus went through .
Is it worth seeing? yes
Is there any comedy in it - intentially or unintentially? i don;t think so .

Re: The Passion of Brian by Godfather on 27 March 2004 10:36pm
Well here is my review of the film.

I know some of you despise my long posts. So, up to you if you read it. Acha?

I saw "Passion of the Christ" earlier today. People keep asking me - "Was it good?". Very unsuitable question really. I keep having to respond to them with "I cant use such words for the movie". I say that,because it's true. "Good",somehow implies entertainment and the film is something different. It's like Schindler's list, in that the words you would use to describe your experience after watching it, fall short and would not be sufficient to really do it justice.

It's extreme in every way. Extreme in brutality,extreme in sentimentalism, extreme in visuals,extreme in music, extreme in sheer overtopness,and well....extreme. The constant criticism we've been hearing from Rabbis that it's Anti-Semitic (implying it's going to turn everybody against "todays" Jews) is a load of victim syndrome nonsense to be honest (imo). If it is anti semitic anywhere,then it's simply referring to a stage of history where the Rabbis DID get Christ killed. They cannot deny that, and i think they're in self denial here. They're playing on sympathy over something that occured this century, and they dont want it to be known that they were at one stage in history,very intolerant. I dont care if it will ruin relations between Jews and Christians. The fact remains that history shows that the Rabbis of that time "were" extremely intolerant and brutal in their views of anything else. So does it help to try and pretend something "did'nt" happen,just to keep relations ok?. Wink wink say no more.

I dont consider those characters to be the Jews of today. I certainly did'nt walk away from the cinema gritting my teeth and thinking "All Jews are like that today". Same with Braveheart. Gibson made the English look like only cold blooded Nazis. We "were" in that stage of history. But i dont think anyone is so stupid to believe that we're those people today. Saying Passion of the Christ is "solely" anti semitic is absurd. I agree with a reviewer of the film who said that "every" character in this film is hideous and brutal. Be they Romans, Jews, or Jesus followers.

The message i got from the film was this quite cynical view - "Human beings are brutal snarling animals...and good and kind people will always be destroyed by the thugs". It's a sad way to look at things. But that is pretty much what the film is saying. It's also saying in-directly that you can only be at peace with the suffering inflicted upon you, if you believe there is some higher power looking after you and some purpose to it all. Jesus' utterance of - "Why have you forsaken me, o lord?" is an example. His only consolation was that surrendering to it being the will of god, is the only thing that can make sense of this senseless and awful horror.

For those who hope for this to be a good conversion tool. Well i would'nt call the film a good conversion tool at all, considering the religion which popped up way after Christ's death eventually became the very tyrannical and dogma ridden sham, that the fanatical Rabbis calling for Jesus death at the hands of the Romans,were. Jesus would be ashamed of how his message was twisted by power mongers, so i dont think it will get people swarming to the churches if it's the intention of Churches hoping to win converts through sympathy. The march - "Onward Christian soldiers...marching out to war" comes to mind as the hypocrisy of it's legacy. You can change the "surface" of a snarling dog. But you cannot change the snarling dog underneath. You can "tell" peopel to love thy neighbour. But they will up to a point,and then tear at them.History of religion shows that unfortunate fact.

Several people in the cinema were "audibly" upset when i was there. There were sniffles and hankies coming out, because of the sheer brutality of what is going on. It stabs at you, if you're religious or not. The fact that human beings can do this to each other. Power,greed,dogma,and intolerance. I came away from the film with my previous conviction remaining,that us humans are in reality just a pack of snarling dogs with some finer qualities at times.Always.Power,fear,ego and animal instinct always overtake every aspect of our lives every flippin time.

In a way,little has changed since the time of those events. We're all still killing each other in the name of religion,power,land,and dogma. We've learnt to make it seem more refined, that's all. No longer do we tear the flesh off someones back with a whip of chains. Nowadays, we drop a laser guided missile on a building while the citizens of the attackers country sleep well in their beds. We're still the same old same old. Yet,the old song - "Some things in life are bad. They can really make you mad...other things just make you swear and curse. When you're chewing on life's gristle. Dont grumble....give a whistle....and this will help things turn out for the beeest..and...." is the only thing that makes sense of it all. I think it's only comedy that keeps us humans sane really. Thank god for Monty Python.

Saying that. As much as l love "Life of Brian" (and i do veeery much) i think it would be "very" offensive and insensitive to many people to release it again while "Passion of the Christ" is in the cinemas. Not a good move at all (imo). Life of Brian can have it's say say next year or something. Putting it on now would be goingn a bit too far.

Godfather (Nazi Englishman,like in Braveheart)

Re: The Passion of Brian by canaveralgumby on 29 March 2004 1:26am
Well, Godfather, you've peaked the interest of the OTHER Palinite who writes nauseatingly long posts!

1. I did not see the movie.

2. I am Jewish, by ethnicity, not in practice.

3. Let me make this absolutely clear - Jews are NOT against Jesus. He is one of the greatest people in human history. We agree with the Pythons when they say "there's just nothing bad you can say about him." As I said, I don't practice, but I can tell you that we did NOT get into the New Testament at all in 4 yrs of Hebrew school, as you can imagine! It's my understanding that Jews do not believe the Messiah has come yet, but have nothing against anyone who believes he has.

4. I have never felt that THIS film would turn people against Jews, nor do any other Jewish people I know think that. Honest.

4. In weeks of discussion, on miriad 24-hr. "news" channels, I didn't see them produce a single "Jewish leader" or even name a "Jewish leader" who was actually complaining. I don't think there was one. I think it was a marketing ploy to get publicity for a movie that probably would have been marginal at the box office. Maybe those marketing people were Jewish, maybe not, I dunno...

5. The Romans carried out murder by crucifixion. AFAIK the Romans are the only ones who did. Therefore the Romans carried out the crucifixion of Jesus.

6. It's my understanding that on that day, the Romans carried out a mass execution of Jews, and did it at Passover, one of the highest of holy days for Jews, just to be REALLY nasty. He was one of the many.

7. Since, as I said, I'm not a student of the NT, can you tell me if the brutal beating of Jesus by the crowd was in there? Or was that filmmaker's license?

8. Please consider that the bit about Barabus is apocryphal. Please consider this: when Emperor Constantine became Christian, as Emperor of the "world" he naturally wanted to take control of the governings of Christian churches everywhere. This was a sudden shock to European and Asian Christians, accustomed to being persecuted by Rome. Reminding Rome who was responsible for the killing of Jesus, Christendom rejected Rome's authority and interference. So the politicians of Rome did what they do to this day, they spun the story. They might even have written revisionist history - it wouldn't be the first or last time THAT happened! Vatican II was about recognising that that was possible, and recognising the hostility, often resulting in lynching, or torture, or mass murder of Jews, over centuries (not just the 20th), that came about as a result of the passion story.

Please, just for a moment, consider that. You may not buy it, Mel Gibson says HE doesn't buy it, but at least you might understand that this is why we get a little twitchy about these things. Though once again I will say that the ALLEGED complaints about the film by ALLEGED Jewish leaders were probably also apocryphal. Generally, we are liberal people and will fight for freedom of speech and encourage open debate.

Godfather, you make an excellent point. Everyone doesn't turn against a people by learning that, somewhere in their history, they did bad things. It proves we're all human. Humans are all capable of very bad behavior.

Having said all that, please, Godfather, don't feel nihilistic about humanity. You need to watch some movies and read some books about when people DON'T go wrong! The Pythons wouldn't want you to be so down, and neither do I.
Re: The Passion of Brian by Martin99 on 29 March 2004 1:19pm
Good review Godfather..You raised some good points.
I believe what you say about the Snarling Dog theory is correct, the World has not really changed, and humans will screw up forever. Thankfully we have humour and humanity in the World, but we also have a lot of crap, and far too many twisted People in our World.

Re: The Passion of Brian by George on 29 March 2004 8:47pm
There is nothing in "The Passion" to contradict scripture. That said, the Jews are are no more responsible for killing Jesus than my cousin Ursula is reponsible for gassing Anne Frank. The movie is a wonderful piece of contemporary film making. Yes, it's graphic. So was "Saving Private Ryan", which my grandfather, who participated in the Allied invasion, thought was pretty tame because it lacked the SMELL of battle. So, a lot depends on what the individual brings into the theatre with him/her. Nevertheless, realism is what people want today. And controversy. For "King of Kings"(1959) brown haired, blue eyed Jeffrey Hunter had to reshoot the crucifixtion scene because of his offending chest hair. Only styles have changed.
Re: The Passion of Brian by Godfather on 29 March 2004 11:05pm

Ok. "Some" Jews, then.

Are you denying that Jesus was seen as a threat by the orthodox religious leaders of that time?
Re: The Passion of Brian by George on 30 March 2004 1:03am
No. The orthodox Jewish leaders of that day definately DID see Jesus and others as threats. I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. Ciaphus and the rest of the Jewish leadership saw Jesus as a threat to their authority. That's why they had him executed.
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