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  The Chatter Box : Blathering On
Messages 1 2 

Silliness and the Border. by tucsonmike on 28 May 2006 4:11am
This is actually funny. We have a new member of my Toastmasters club named Ernesto. He was born in Nogales, Sonora right on the border and could stare into the United States.

A big fear along the border is Al Queda terrorists slipping in from Mexico. Ernesto suggested along with the water stations Humanitarian Borders put up, we also have stations with Chirracones (Mexican Pork Rinds) and beer. The more poorly trained terrorist will wrinkle his nose and get caught.

Hey it is worth a try. The immigration bill is still being worked on, because the House of Representatives and the Senate are so far apart.

I just saw the movie, A Day without Mexicans. Very poignant in some places, but otherwise, more like a bad Science Fiction movie.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by perfectbitch on 28 May 2006 10:40am
I don't think any government is able to stop illegal immigration. A friend of mine who is a customs officer has the task of checking at random, the inventaries of incoming containers at one of our major ports. He reckons that there are signs of habitation in at least 30% of incoming containers.
One of the reasons this has escalated is that the government made such financial cuts to the customs budget about 4 years ago that this ports fleet of customs boats has dropped from 15 to 2.

Quite honestly, Al Queda has financial clout and I do not believe they would resort to illegal immigration in this manner. They are far more likely to have well forged documents or, they are already citizens - as was shown in the London bombings.

Perhaps governments should realise that the term globalisation is not confined to multinational corporations. I don't know, genuine asylum seekers deserve to be heard but our infrastructure is suffering - we are a small country that has not had enough land to grow enough to feed ourselves since WWII.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by sighthound on 29 May 2006 2:08am
The 9/11 terrorists all came the the U.S. legally. The guy that was planning to bomb the LA airport came in through Canada. We may need to control illegal immigration across our borders but claiming that we MUST build a version of the Berlin Wall on our southern border to stop terrorists is, at its best, an absurd, expensive sop to the Republicans already alienated by Bush and, at its worst, veiled racism.

I was at a family reunion in northern Montana once where half the cousins lived in Canada. No one bothered to go through the "official" checkpoints. We just crossed across Farmer Brown's back 40. There is no way to"secure our borders" physically - the U.S. is just too vast. Let's spend that money monitoring all incoming cargo for dirty bombs and nasty biologicals; that is doable but is being totally neglected amid all the political rhetoric.

I like your point about globalization, Linz. The industrial and big money interests have pushed globalization without realizing that it has made the world much "smaller" and that there are human consequences to it.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by tucsonmike on 29 May 2006 2:24am
That's right, let's do monitoring that will work. I've been along enough of the border here to know how vast it is. The most sophisticated terrorists do not need to sneak across. The ones sneaking are the desparate looking to work.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by arty_farty on 29 May 2006 12:06pm
whatever your government try to to stop it i don't think it'll work. the terrorists won't get inconvenianced by it at all. tis the ones who want work that will be screwed.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by peripatetically on 29 May 2006 1:55pm
I really don't think people in other countries realize the full extent of the illegal situation. They are not only coming in hordes, and I mean hundreds and hundreds of thousands PER DAY, but they are also bringing with them many diseases, some of which are communicable too. Case in point: TB has been on the upswing in recent eyars and it had been nearly, if not completely, irradicated from the USA at one time. There are many cases now. The problem has been traced to the illegals and from what they say, other diseases too are showing marked comebacks as well. So not only do the mere numbers of people drain the system, but it's unhealthy for all of us and healthcare costs continually rise to treat those who aren't even contributing toward it. Doing nothing to stop this perpetration would be irresponsible.

Also, it's the sheer mind-boggling numbers of people flooding the borders that horrify me. And Mexico is doing next to nothing to help their own people. That's possibly the worst crime being committed here. I haven't heard much of anything they are doing to keep their people home. Lack of empathy from the government? Sounds that way to me. They'd rather let them leave than take care of their own and offer them a decent and respectable life. Pathetic for both countries, really. But our health systems can't handle this and we aren't fond of people intentionally breaking the law at the expense of those who followed the system, got in line and applied. Not fair to them AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Silliness and the Border. by perfectbitch on 29 May 2006 11:01pm
TB has become rife in parts of London due to both legal and illegal immigration as medical checks were carried out on an ad hoc basis. Because of language difficulties, and a distrust of western medicine, many sufferes did not take antibiotics in the right combination and often did not complete the course. We have also seen a rise in all the range of hepatitis, which in Asia is contracted by oral faecal contamination but is mainly a sexually transmitted disease in the west.
I have believed that we need to overhaul our immigration system for a while now. I think a break of a year to review and change the system is in order. We are also bound by EU rules on this so 2 parliamentary procedures have to be gone through.
The fascist BNP here is gaining ground because the government has largely ignored the problem and people are plain fed up and angry.

Re: Silliness and the Border. by sighthound on 30 May 2006 12:04am
Except in wild animals, rabies has been extremely rare in California but, lately, there have been quite a few cases of rabies reported in young pups, all of whom had been smuggled in from Mexico. With the prices of purebred dogs often topping $1000, smuggling dogs is a very lucrative business. So Los Angeles, in its infinite wisdom, just passed a mandatory spay/neuter law that will dry up the supply of domestically-bred puppies and kittens there, making smuggling even more lucrative and so we'll be seeing a lot more rabies.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by tucsonmike on 30 May 2006 3:04am
A little "Mexico 101." Middle and Upper Class Mexicans look down their noses at the migrants. They are seen as an embarrassment for the country. For the past five years, Mexico's economy has been growing at about 4% a year. Not enough to take care of all of the 100 million people they now have. For one of the poorer states, (Zacatecas), one third of their population lives in the U.S. Their candidate for Governor was campaigning here for votes.

There are 31 Mexican states. They range from Advanced World lifestyles to poor states such as Guerrero, which live on the level of the poorest African countries.

No Patty, you are right. It is NOT fair to those who do the right thing and wait in line. My friend Ernesto tells me what he had to do to come here legally.

The market forces will push what happens. Obviously, if the opportunity were not here, they would not come. As a culture (a major generalization), Mexicans are loath to live too far from their families. Patty, you ask why the government does not do more? Many things in the culture would have to change. Mexicans tend to see the world in the following order and take care of it that way.

1. Your Family.
2. Closest friends, (Compadres y Comadres).
3. Your Barrio, village, etc.
4. Your State.
5. The nation.

In other words, you take care of your own, and much of life is determined, by signs or fate.

For the 71 years, the PRI Political Party ran the country, (Partido Revolucionario Institucional), their main political platform, backed by all sorts of electoral fraud was:
You get us, or you have another bloody revolution.

Therefore, you get a situation, where everything is filtered through favors.
All of this goes back to the Aztecs. It is as though they were never really defeated.

This is a little more academic than I intended, but in the long run, Patty, that is the way things happen there. I'll answer any questions I can for Mexico 202. Marcelle, feel free to chip in about Brazilian culture and differences from things Mexicano.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by peripatetically on 31 May 2006 1:23am
What you say might be true, Mike, but it doesn't change how I feel. Immigrants in the past mostly legal ones, before the prsent humongous problem have come here, learned English and assimilated into American society WILLINGLY! Still the first step is obeying the law and wating their turn. They are standing around saying it's their right to do this and that..... They don't have any rights. I don't know a single person is is satisfied with what Congress is likely to do. And that is give what they are saying isn't amnesty. it is no matter what words you use.
I know I'm skipping around and probably don't make sense, but I'm so livid over this that I could scream. it seems the governmet doesn't listen to the people on this. Well, guess what? I don't care whatparty they are in, if I don';t like what they do on this vote, they don't get my vote PERIOD! This is serious for the good of this country.
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