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  The Chatter Box : Blathering On
Messages 1 2 

Re: Silliness and the Border. by pandab on 31 May 2006 1:38am
Tucsonmike - I had to snicker at your friend's idea. He may well have a point!

The idea that illegal immigration must be stopped to prevent terrorism is silly. Terrorist cell members are trained to remain as unobtrusive as possible until called upon. That is what makes them so dangerous. They usually don't do anything suspicious until it is too late. Sneaking across the border, running the risk of capture, is not a good way to remain unobtrusive.

No, we need to stop (or at least slow down) illegal immigration for other reasons. I've stated my opinion on the matter in other topics, so I won't re-state it here.

Re: Silliness and the Border. by sighthound on 31 May 2006 3:10am
I totally understand your frustration, patty, but it is such an extremely complicated problem that, frankly, I don't know where I stand. My father was an immigrant but, coming from Canada, at the time he just drove across the border and he was instantly legal which would not have been the case if his skin had been a bit darker. Our immigration laws have always been drenched in racism.

I have known many, many illegal Mexican immigrants. I don't like issuing blanket statments but I have always found them to extremely hard-working people who have had no other option than to come to the U.S. to try to make enough money to keep their families fed. I can't fault them for ignoring the immigration laws because it takes so many years on the waiting list and that is just if you qualify for special status - if you are a peon from Chiapas, you will never be allowed to immigrate legally.

The ones that end up here are the ones who have had the courage and the smarts to make their way here; they are, frequently, quite extraordinary people who can do much to enrich our nation.

This isn't an American problem, it is an international problem - the rich have their NAFTA protections while the poor must do whatever they can to survive.

On the other hand, I totally agree that the ones who come here need to become fluent in English. We need to have a common language so we can communicate. And language should not have a political bias; we can look to our Canadian neighbors to see how dis functional that outlook can be.

Re: Silliness and the Border. by the fugitive on 31 May 2006 12:28pm
Saving lots of money they head for a boat
Cramped with many strangers little air is left to breathe
Panic rises in out throats the boat no match for swell
Never to see my children, my wife, my family
Will my family get my body? O will I drift in the sea?

Maybe if we are fortunate to live in a "rich" country, we should force our governments to trade with poorer nations then there would be less need for immigration and less need for the endless loss of life of people TRYING to make a better life for their families and themselves
Re: Silliness and the Border. by tucsonmike on 1 June 2006 7:08am
Fugitive, the poem was good and poingnant. Investment in poorer countries would help.

The Economist had three interesting articles on this.

1. Sometimes in the United States we forget about Puerto Rico. They do not have all the rights mainland citizens have, however, they are United States citizens. Economic policies have doomed the island to not do as well as it might and unemployment is a major problem.

2. Canada is actually looking for immigrants.

3. Patty this is in your neck of the woods. The crab harvesting season looks as though it is going to be a record. The crab processing factory in Hampton, Virginia is having to hire Mexican workers. They can't get locals to do the work. Again, do you somehow force locals to do it. The Watermen (many of whom are studied for the 15th Century West Country English accents) are finding they are not getting enough per bushel to make it work gassing up the boat and taking it out. There is an economic problem for you.
Re: Silliness and the Border. by tucsonmike on 12 June 2006 2:00am
Today through Wed., the Arizona Daily Star is doing a series on immigration.
Today (Sunday June 11th). Why Reform Plans Are Flawed?

Tomorrow-How Illegal Workers Thrive.

Tuesday- The Role of Employers.

Wed.-Where Home Buyers Fit In.

You can read more and participate in the forums at

A Princeton Sociologist described it best. If you make it past the border, you are in for the most part.

The European columnist in the Economist, known as Charlemagne compared European and American immigration policy. In the United States, immigrants can't get welfare work hard and the jobs are there. In much of Europe, the immigrants can get in and get public assistance, but can't get jobs.

The Star made it clear today that billions would have to be spent to clean the border up completely. Prices would rise, more Americans would be precluded from owning a home etc. Bottom line, we have created so many tradeoffs. The government applies the grease to the squeaky wheel.

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