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  The Chatter Box : Blathering On
Canadian RCMPolice kill an innocent man by Lounge Trekker on 16 November 2007 3:55am
After seeing our national police force, RCMP, in action for over 4o years, I must suggest that all decent people stay away from Canada. Canadian government representatives will tell you this is a great country, but the paramilitary wing of our government continues to be an embarassment to some and a real danger to others.

I'm sure this is due to individual performance abberations, but the 'force' will back them to the bitter end, rather than admit any institutional shortcoming. I specifically refer to the abuse of taser subjugation devices.

The 'news' systems in place in this country are careful of what they say contrary to what the government wants said, but here is a link to the CBC story:


Here's a link to the same video posted on You Tube:


Inadvertent as it might be, the message this kind of high-profile bungling sends is Canadian police are dangerous.


Lounge Trekker
Re: Canada closes the door to people wanting safety and security by canaveralgumby on 16 November 2007 7:48pm
I think it's fairly well-known that you can't taser someone repeatedly. It's supposed to be once or twice tops. You can stop someone's heart with continuous electricity.

I am NOT condoning or apologizing for the RCMP use of force in the situation, but it does say in the above link that the man was showing aggression and mental instability by his actions, not because of his speech. Same with the woman in the airport in Arizona earlier this year, but her death is not justifiable either.

Hard to believe that a group of big strong trained officers did not feel that they could subdue the one man, whom they already had encircled, isolated and unarmed, WITHOUT the use of a weapon at all.
Re: Canada closes the door to people wanting safety and security by Lounge Trekker on 16 November 2007 8:07pm
I think it was unnecessary and unreasonable use of force. This is said with the knowledge of the investigation over the last few days so we must remember the RCMP were told there was an unstable, potentialy dangerous man.

This would have been a non-issue had the Canadian Border Security Ageny had policy and precedures in place for such an event. There was no interpreter present and it is unclear to me whether steps were taken to obtain one. He showed nothing but obedience to the police. There were no attempts to calm him and find out what was going on. Witnesses say the officers weren't listening to bystanders willing to explain what they knew of the man's predicament.

A lesson to be learned by a police force that claims to be capable of handling issues like this. A lesson that the CBSA must revise it's procedures. A big price for this lesson paid by the Polish man and his mother. I cry for her.

Lounge Trekker
Re: Canada closes the door to people wanting safety and security by mrsthing on 16 November 2007 8:59pm
Under duress and with a suspect whose behavior is unpredictable, it's impossible to be completely objective and rational. Many police officers have attended the funerals of friends and co-workers, or had to break the news of an officer's death to spouses and/or children. They know their lives are on the line every time they answer a call. And while they knew that before they decided to to into law enforcement, it's got to be stressful.

And under conditions like that, it's way too easy even for a good cop to lose his or her cool and do things they wouldn't ordinarily consider moral. And the bad ones know how to wield their own form of "justice" and cover it up. In this case, they were so clearly in the wrong that it's an embarrassment to the RCMP.

I wish I had a good answer to this problem. You can't disarm the police--they should be allowed to defend themselves--but nobody can guarantee they'll always do the right thing, either.

It's a mess all right.
Re: Canada closes the door to people wanting safety and security by tucsonmike on 17 November 2007 4:54am
The rational part of me says I cannot walk in the policemen's shoes. The irrational part now looks over his shoulder @ authority. (Maybe living in the Wild West does it to you).

I have heard both sides of the RCMP. I have always had the image of they always get their man and Dudley Do Right. I also remember a man in Nova Scotia @ at Toastmasters conference tell me, they get away with a lot. If an RCMP officer killed someone in Nova Scotia, he was quietly shipped to Northern Ontario.

So, I am swinging both ways here.
Canadian RCMP kills an innocent man by Lounge Trekker on 17 November 2007 6:40am
OK, mistakes happen. Perhaps what alarms me most is that the RCMP will investigate itself as it has for all it's illustrious past. This is wrong. The public trust has evaporated. We need legislation to correct this.

This type of incident becoming public is relatively rare considering the size of this paramilitary organization, and their ubiquitous presence in Canada. The press will rip at them every chance they get.

Unfortunately, independent reviews and investigations are critical, yet absent. The police serve the country, let us not let the tail wag the dog.

Yes Mike, I've heard similar things about police forces everywhere...these guys make their own rules until they get caught. They then plead institutional deniability...at public expense. I'm not saying these are bad guys, but they bumble along just like most people, but have the resources to cover up their shortcomings.

From where I sit, the RCMP has never helped me. If you are a victim of crime, unless you need the insurance claim, just suck it up and protect yourself better next time. Calling the police will only cost you time and money.

My condolences go out to Mr. Diekansy's mother.

Lounge Trekker
Re: Canadian RCMP kills an innocent man by johnnythemonkey on 19 November 2007 5:06am
Pete, I can see how strongly you feel about this issue. These things are not unique to Canada. The incident you quote is reminiscent to Jean charles de menezes being shot dead by the London Met police at Stockwell tube station. You brought up some points about police accountability, well in this country,basically the police investigate themselves. I think we get what we deserve when we 'elect' politicians and don't demand that they answer to us. I was subjected to police violence as a 15 year old, when things here were explained as " he fell down the stairs" and my parents would'nt question it. They just wanted me out of their custody. I still have flashbacks to that cop repeatedly punching me and his 'sing song voice' saying " you better tell me, or I'm going to hit you " (which he did) for something that I never did, nor was ever charged with. It all contributed to making me what I am.
Re: Canadian RCMP kills an innocent man by Lounge Trekker on 19 November 2007 5:33am
I'll get over it John. There is a problem with police investigating themselves, but they seem to hold themselves outside convention in this respect. We must be sure our government has the ability to pass legislation to keep these guys in line.

So far, there is no publicized freindly link between police and our governments. I hope we're OK.

I've written the appropriate government representatives, so at least I have said what I'm thinking.

Lounge Trekker
Re: Canadian RCMP kills an innocent man by johnnythemonkey on 19 November 2007 5:48am
Pete, I'm afraid I've somewhat given up on issues. When I was in my twenties in particular, I thought I could change things and even considered entering politics. I am almost 50 now and realise I could never have changed a damn thing. I am a socialist in a world full of greed.
Re: Canadian RCMP kills an innocent man by Lounge Trekker on 19 November 2007 5:57am
Yeah...I may send e-mail once, if I think it's necessary , but I'm no activist. I might even vote.


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