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  The Chatter Box : Blathering On
Messages 1 2 

Not on Facebook please!!! by Spursfan2 on 1 April 2013 7:33pm
We have several Turkish friends who are also our friends on Facebook.

We often don't know what the joke is, or what they're discussing, without checking as our Turkish isn't up to it (but hopefully one day it WILL be!).

The thing that we DON'T like is their universal delight in showing the usually gruesome end of PKK (Kurdish terrorist group) members, often lying in pools of their own blood, shot, with Turkish soldiers or other Turks posing with them.

Today there is a photo of 5 terrorists hanging, with the title (I think!) "Only One Solution To Terrorism".

Yes I know the PKK have killed hundreds if not thousands of your countrymen and you therefore can be excused for hating them, but let's have some dignity in THEIR death!! I for one do NOT want to see it, and I don't think Facebook is the place!!

Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by tucsonmike on 2 April 2013 2:15am
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by Spursfan2 on 2 April 2013 11:04am
Yep, Mike.

I mean, in one way you can understand them being ecstatic - but glorifying in another human being's (well actually ANY creature's but still) death is not in any way acceptable in my humble opinion.

AND it is not nice to see the pix either.
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by Loretto on 2 April 2013 1:39pm
Agreed Anne. I felt the same way when they showed Muammar Gaddafi's body on public display in an industrial freezer.

Yes he was a brutal leader but dead is dead, and I for one don't need to see it.
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by Wheelrim on 2 April 2013 4:48pm
Anne. Strange people indeed. When I had my home in Belek (7 Years) I had freinds of all nationalities, many Turkish of course. One in particular, Ferit, was a great guy, very funny, very western in his ways and loved the `bling` in his life. He is around 40 and married to a German lady. Ferit is the photographer in a large hotel, he is very popular there due to his sense of humour. He called me `Johnny English`. We had him and his lady around for a meal one night, along with a Belgian couple. Halfway through the meal he stopped us all in our tracks by saying "Ah, Johnny English, I am very happy, 15 American soldiers die today in Iraq" I said "Ferit, that is an awful thing to say, these people had fathers, mothers, children and wives, why would you say that?" He replied "But you dont understand, these people kill my brothers". Sad to say Anne, and I think you will understand what I mean when I say, Its a Muslim thing. As I learnt whilst there, their overriding belief is that from conception, their life is ordained (thats why they overtake on blind bends, its Allah`s will if anyone should be doing the same coming the other way) and cannot be altered by anything. They are an `Eye for an Eye` people and will not be swayed. That is not nasty or racist, its a fact. It is what THEY believe no matter what we say, do, or think.Its been hammered home for thousands of years and how we view it is immaterial to them.
Barbaric? yes, to you and me. To others? Maybe, or maybe not.
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by TERRY S on 2 April 2013 7:08pm
There have been the odd number of people showing nasty stuff on Twitter too. I remember of my Twitter friends complaining - she has a point. We know the world can be nasty, but it doesn't need to be shoved in our faces.
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by Spursfan2 on 2 April 2013 7:29pm
Very interesting, John.

I don't think it is particularly because they're 'strange' (though I know what you mean). I am not exaggerating when I say that most people have been affected in some way by aomeone they know being killed or maimed by the PKK - I have told the tale on here about a very good friend, Ali, who's Aunt's house, where we had eaten a few months before, was in the middle of an army/PKK battle. Luckily on that occasion no-one innocent w harmed, but even in our small, select circles we know people who have lost friends who were in the army, for example.

Funnily enough, last summer we were talking about McDonalds, as there is a couple of outlets in the town we have our apartment in. We were basically saying to him that we would treat him, as he is not well off and of course, McDs is out of reach of most Turks.

His reaction was surprising - we have known him for nearly 30 years and he is what you might call a 'Turkish Hippie'. He is very peace-loving, etc etc. His reaction was full of hate towards the Americans; that by going there he would be supporting the US, and when we asked him why, like Ferit, he said 'they killed my brother'.

We argued with him for a while (NOT heatedly I hasten to add) but he was blind in his insistence of the evil of the US, telling us, 'don't you read the papers?'. We said that you shouldn't believe all you read in the papers, but he was insistent that not only the newspapers never lied, but also that his government always told the truth!! He was quite shocked when we said we didn't believe either the papers o our government (all the time) !!

In the end we agreed to differ.

Turks are also obsessed by guns - which are easy to get hold of. Many go hunting and many of our friends (who have all been in the army of course) seem to like putting photos of themselves posing with various weapons. A very very good friend accidentally shot himself a few years ago whilst cleaning and, to be blunt, 'messing about' with a gun. Sadly, he had sharpened his bullets in a special way which makes them more efficient (if I can say that) - if he hadn't he may still be alive today. He is still sadly missed (again, he wasn't a violent man).

And that thing about life being ordained. We were told that years ago, that whatever they do, when Allah wants to take them that is it. When I am in the back of a car driven crazily I always want to say, 'that's fine - but we're not Muslim so it doesn't necessarily work for us!!'

I don't know if it is a particularly Muslim thing, maybe it is. As I have already said we have good friends who just happen to be Muslim, and we have also witnessed great acts of kindness by Muslims both in Turkey and other countries.

Our friend Osman (we really consider his family and ours to be one family) is quite an important man in poitics but he was an Imman for a while (before we knew him). He has explained many things to us, one of which is that Islam preaches peace to all; that those who preach death to the non-muslim are not following the Koran (and I have read excerpts fom that too, where it does in fact say that).
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by tucsonmike on 3 April 2013 9:51pm
I am asking this for those who know about Turkey. If the Kurds were allowed to have a state (as they already have a de facto one in Northern Iraq) would that solve the problem?

I had always wanted to see Istanbul and Cappadocia. Now I am not so sure.

For the Europeans, that begs the next question. Do you want Turkey in the European Union?

According to journalist Robert D. Kaplan in his latest book The Revenge of Geography, the Turks are quietly rebuilding the Ottoman Empire. They are creating business opportunities in the Balkans and with their dams on the Tigris and Euphrates, they can choke Iraq and Syria off (both will probably collapse anyway).

If I am Israel, I want to play nice with the Turkish tiger...
Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by Spursfan2 on 4 April 2013 11:29am
We were in Cappadocia (again!!) last November. It is a beautiful place, the food is yummy (!), and the people are lovely Mike so visit if you can!!!

Istanbul is also a wonderful place but we can only take it for a max of 3 days at a time. That's because at the end of the day it is busy busy busy, and the people (like any big city in any country of the world including the UK and the US!!) are that bit colder than the rest of the country.

I am not sure about your Kurdish question - theoretically it SHOULD solve the problem; after all that is what they want. But then, to give the Kurds thir own state (and by the way we have known Kurds in Turkey who have been really nice, trouble is they are treated like dirt by the Turks) you would presumably have to take land from Turkey, who is NOT going to be happy!! So you would solve one problem and begin another (rather like Israel I believe).

As for the EU, it should not be whether we want Turkey in, but whether they want to be in themselves??? Nearly every Turkish person we talk to about this does NOT want to go in. We are in two minds; if they were in the EU our allowances would go up which would be advantageous to us, but then no doubt prices would increase anyway.

We love Turkey and its people; it is full of history, beautiful places, great food and kindness. In the future we hope to spend most of the year there.


Re: Not on Facebook please!!! by Wheelrim on 4 April 2013 11:49am
Mike, You would love Turkey, the people really are very hospitable and pretty genuine. You cannot steer clear of the Muslim aspect as it is their base religion, and quite rightly they are proud of it, and, equally proud of their country and its great history. The Kurdish people in Eastern Turkey have genuinely been the nicest, kindest people I have met on my travels. Go to Turkey Mike, drink in Istanbul and go to Cappodocia, one of the weirdest most beautiful places on the planet.
By the way, brush up on Attaturk, whenever you see a photo of him (They are everywhere) point to it and say, `Attaturk, what a great man` You will instantly make 100 friends. He really was a great man and NOBODY in Turkey would diss him, ever. very handsome dude too!
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